...or, How to Not Stumble into a Ditch. Graham Norton compares failure to a very wide channel we can fall into if our definition of success is too narrow.
Thanks for asking, Graham. During my career, all of my academic, non-fiction books were published, and my measurement of success was not so much how many books sold, or how many had multiple printings, but that I knew I was making a contribution to my field. Pride in my work was the reward. However, now I am old, and I have the sheer pleasure of writing fiction. I write every day, out of joy. My measure of success now is that I find my own works entertaining. ( Can I say that?) Sometimes I laugh out loud and say to myself, "Now THAT is funny!" Or I will make myself cry and tell myself, " Wow! That is damn beautiful." Opinions that may, or may not, be true, but it doesn't matter. For everything, a season...
Yes! You can certainly say you find your work entertaining! I was writing with a small group yesterday evening, and I'm in the process of stitching together versions of my WIP. I kept laughing out loud myself at some of the turns of phrases I came across.
It also was encouraging. Self-encouraging (if that's a concept). Reviewing stuff from months or maybe years ago and laughing at it -- it's like a different writer wrote it, giving me the distance I need to evaluate it a bit more objectively.
And yeah, there is definitely a lot of joy involved, too!
Just today I saw some old messages between me and my partner from back before I started writing regularly and it was her encouraging me to write more and me saying I wish I had the discipline to do it. So now being on the other side of having developed that discipline, I am happy to agree with you - writing itself is the prize.
You are one of the most consistent writers I know. I'm going on five years of Substack, so you must be close, too. I'm so glad to hear that you find writing to be the prize itself!
Great framing of success, Graham! Very - - - successful!
For me, success is:
- Finishing what I started - that book that had been staring at me for so many years
- Sitting my ass down and writing, even (or especially) when I don't think I have a clear sense of what I want to write. And trusting the process of writing a bunch of shitty sentences that surround the one nugget of gold.
- Having used the process of writing to process what I'm thinking and feeling, and getting more clarity & direction as a result.
See, those are all great definitions of success. I think discipline around creating art is great: showing up, doing the work, finishing the work. But I've found that I need to let the art take care of itself. My job is to sit myself down, and let the muses take care of the rest. There's the hope that others will like it, but "success" shouldn't depend on it.
We're drilled for success (civilization mindset?). It moves the entire contraption forward and creates a lot of stress in the process. Of all the writers I interacted with in the past twelve years, many have dropped out. Happy, unhappy? I hope they found satisfaction. Which is a better 'term' in my opinion than 'success', that is mostly defined in material terms ... a self-defeating definition overall and especially in creative endeavors.
I agree! The word "success" doesn't necessarily contain the idea of "happy" or even "satisfied" (though, not coincidentally, it does imply it, which is why we all reach for that brass ring...)
I think humans are naturally competitive. However, I think competition is difficult in the arts. For example, songs that were number one on the charts 50 years ago are forgotten today. Meanwhile, songs that never even made the charts are now considered classics . So even though there's a mechanism in place to determine the "best" song at any given moment by the number of people listening to it, the term "best" is transitory. And, as you point out, self-defeating for the artist.
Art should be free of words like "best". Art should be what you make it -- and what it makes you.
Success is such an excellent concept to examine. Thanks for addressing it.
Benefit: knowing what I think and how I feel, which gives me a choice about whether and how to share either in public. I’m better at tact (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) when I’ve been honest with myself, and writing (personal and also not) gets me there.
Success is a moving target, for reasons both in and beyond my control.
In my control: I’ve written and published a novel. I’m working on my second and hope to feel it’s publishable.
Out of my control: publishers are desperate for stories about pirate centipedes wearing gloves who also fight crime. Not my best genre in which to write. Oh well.
Sometimes, life circumstances mean that success is writing something, anything at all; the reward is getting to do it again.
Part of my planning process for each month is asking myself how I’ll know I’ve been successful. Everything I do—writing and not—leaves other things undone. So that’s how I try to focus and then celebrate what DID happen vs what did NOT.
That sounds like a great way to approach it! But then, I expected no less -- I often stop and think, "What would Marion do?"
Success is a slippery thing. The same person can see it differently in others than themselves. I've heard people truly happy for a writer's accomplishments then say that theirs isn't accomplishment enough.
I think maybe we need to measure success solely within ourselves, and not against others. It's not a race to the top to the final rung. It's a more about the climb itself, and we all have our own ladders.
Thanks for asking, Graham. During my career, all of my academic, non-fiction books were published, and my measurement of success was not so much how many books sold, or how many had multiple printings, but that I knew I was making a contribution to my field. Pride in my work was the reward. However, now I am old, and I have the sheer pleasure of writing fiction. I write every day, out of joy. My measure of success now is that I find my own works entertaining. ( Can I say that?) Sometimes I laugh out loud and say to myself, "Now THAT is funny!" Or I will make myself cry and tell myself, " Wow! That is damn beautiful." Opinions that may, or may not, be true, but it doesn't matter. For everything, a season...
Yes! You can certainly say you find your work entertaining! I was writing with a small group yesterday evening, and I'm in the process of stitching together versions of my WIP. I kept laughing out loud myself at some of the turns of phrases I came across.
It also was encouraging. Self-encouraging (if that's a concept). Reviewing stuff from months or maybe years ago and laughing at it -- it's like a different writer wrote it, giving me the distance I need to evaluate it a bit more objectively.
And yeah, there is definitely a lot of joy involved, too!
Yes! I, feel the same when I look back to my work five years ago on substack. Did I write this? Sometimes I am horrified! ha ha ha. I DO see progress.
Just today I saw some old messages between me and my partner from back before I started writing regularly and it was her encouraging me to write more and me saying I wish I had the discipline to do it. So now being on the other side of having developed that discipline, I am happy to agree with you - writing itself is the prize.
You are one of the most consistent writers I know. I'm going on five years of Substack, so you must be close, too. I'm so glad to hear that you find writing to be the prize itself!
Great framing of success, Graham! Very - - - successful!
For me, success is:
- Finishing what I started - that book that had been staring at me for so many years
- Sitting my ass down and writing, even (or especially) when I don't think I have a clear sense of what I want to write. And trusting the process of writing a bunch of shitty sentences that surround the one nugget of gold.
- Having used the process of writing to process what I'm thinking and feeling, and getting more clarity & direction as a result.
Thanks! lol
See, those are all great definitions of success. I think discipline around creating art is great: showing up, doing the work, finishing the work. But I've found that I need to let the art take care of itself. My job is to sit myself down, and let the muses take care of the rest. There's the hope that others will like it, but "success" shouldn't depend on it.
We're drilled for success (civilization mindset?). It moves the entire contraption forward and creates a lot of stress in the process. Of all the writers I interacted with in the past twelve years, many have dropped out. Happy, unhappy? I hope they found satisfaction. Which is a better 'term' in my opinion than 'success', that is mostly defined in material terms ... a self-defeating definition overall and especially in creative endeavors.
I agree! The word "success" doesn't necessarily contain the idea of "happy" or even "satisfied" (though, not coincidentally, it does imply it, which is why we all reach for that brass ring...)
I think humans are naturally competitive. However, I think competition is difficult in the arts. For example, songs that were number one on the charts 50 years ago are forgotten today. Meanwhile, songs that never even made the charts are now considered classics . So even though there's a mechanism in place to determine the "best" song at any given moment by the number of people listening to it, the term "best" is transitory. And, as you point out, self-defeating for the artist.
Art should be free of words like "best". Art should be what you make it -- and what it makes you.
Success is such an excellent concept to examine. Thanks for addressing it.
Benefit: knowing what I think and how I feel, which gives me a choice about whether and how to share either in public. I’m better at tact (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) when I’ve been honest with myself, and writing (personal and also not) gets me there.
Success is a moving target, for reasons both in and beyond my control.
In my control: I’ve written and published a novel. I’m working on my second and hope to feel it’s publishable.
Out of my control: publishers are desperate for stories about pirate centipedes wearing gloves who also fight crime. Not my best genre in which to write. Oh well.
Sometimes, life circumstances mean that success is writing something, anything at all; the reward is getting to do it again.
Part of my planning process for each month is asking myself how I’ll know I’ve been successful. Everything I do—writing and not—leaves other things undone. So that’s how I try to focus and then celebrate what DID happen vs what did NOT.
Lots of facets to the topic.
That sounds like a great way to approach it! But then, I expected no less -- I often stop and think, "What would Marion do?"
Success is a slippery thing. The same person can see it differently in others than themselves. I've heard people truly happy for a writer's accomplishments then say that theirs isn't accomplishment enough.
I think maybe we need to measure success solely within ourselves, and not against others. It's not a race to the top to the final rung. It's a more about the climb itself, and we all have our own ladders.
I like that—we all have our own ladders!